Navigating No Contact: Adoptees' Journeys to Healing

Should you cut off your adoptive parents? 

Should you “go no contact” with your adoptive parents?

“Oh hell no. Not this time. I’m done.” That’s what we felt before cutting off contact with your adoptive parents. Sometimes, the healthies thing we can do is to go no contact with our adoptive parents. Escaping abuse. Escaping racism. Escaping pain. 

In this episode we share what made us go no contact, discuss what it’s like, and share our personal advice to adoptees considering going no contact. 

What we discussed 

(00:34) What is “going no contact”

(01:27) Dr. Noelle’s no contact story

(07:45) The first time I heard the N-word

(08:23) Lia’s no contact story 

(14:45) The “I’m DONE” moment

(17:27) Cost of going no contact

(20:55) The huge disconnect

(23:57) What does it take to go no contact? 

(25:58) Going no contact WHILE raising kids OR Greatest fear OR What to do if your children talk to you about your mistakes 

(34:01) On the fence about going no contact? OR Should you go no contact?

Links

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Credits

Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com 

Transcript

Lia:
Welcome back for another episode of Adoptees Crossing Lines, where this week we'll be talking about going no contact. So, Noelle, if you don't mind, for those of our listeners who might not know what no contact means, can you just share a little bit about that for context?

Dr. Noelle:
Sure. So no contact is a willful and intentional separation between two parties. So in the context that we're talking about it, we're talking about children who go ahead and cease any kind of contact with their parents. So no phone calls, emails, no visits. They just literally stop contacting each other. And in the adoption world, this is happening quite frequently with adoptees and their adoptive families.

Lia:
Thank you for that. So I know that you're no contact with your adoptive mom. As much as you're comfortable sharing, can you share a little bit about maybe how you got there or what ultimately led to that decision?

Dr. Noelle:
Sure. It's the second time I've gone no contact with her. So I had let her back in my life after some real shitty behavior on her part in 2010. And we had started to have not only contact, but visits. She met my youngest child and... I was spending time with her and my adoptive grandmother. And when I started Reunion, Facebook was a huge part of Reunion for me. And I have two billion cousins, like I'm related to everyone. And as people may remember, my adoptive mother is white, so I'm a transracial adoptee. my cousins and my family in reunion is black. And they would post, how you doing cuz? So glad to meet you cuz. It was cuz, cuz all over my wall. And my adoptive mother decided it was the best possible thing she could do to comment on one of these posts. And she wrote, these people aren't related to you. They're no relation to you at all. like really? So I pushed back and told her that this was inappropriate and unacceptable. And she just was relentless. You don't need these people. These people abandoned you. You know, and she's doing it all on my Facebook page, right, for the world to see. So that was actually strike one. Strike two. was she was at the same time posting pro-conservative ideology and anti-immigrant ideology. And she actually posted a picture of one of the children in a cage at the border and said something like, if your parents made better decisions, then you wouldn't be in this position. And I'm thinking this woman who bought me, treated me so terribly, was an abusive, neglectful mother, has the audacity, the unmitigated gull to suggest that other people were making bad parental decisions, unbelievable. That was strike two. Strike three was her defending her son posting a picture of a black man hanging. and I was done. I had enough and I did not announce no contact. I did not negotiate no contact. I blocked her on everything. I blocked my adoptive siblings on everything. And I just literally disappeared from their lives and have remained non-existent in their lives ever since. How about you? What's your story? I know you're no contact as well.

Lia:
Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Wait a minute, oh, wow. First, I wanna pause at the part about the kids in cages because I think it's really interesting that, I mean, in your case, your adopted mom was spewing, hateful rhetoric against immigrants, but. there are a lot of people who have empathy for, you know, the kids in cages and kids at the border, but they don't have empathy for adoptees. And I'm like, is that not family separation? Is it, is it because they're in a cage? Is it because they're in something physical that you can see that you are able to empathize with the fact that they're being separated from their family? Like, I don't,

Dr. Noelle:
Yeah,

Lia:
I don't understand it.

Dr. Noelle:
I think that's a great question. And what I saw in her was that she had no empathy in either case,

Lia:
Yeah.

Dr. Noelle:
right? That that did not strike her as a problematic situation to have a child not only in a cage, but separated from their family. So she has no empathy in either situation, adoption, or our terrible border politics.

Lia:
And then to post, or I think you said your adopted brother posted a picture of a black man hanging. And that's horrible. And I'm thinking about, I mean, obviously you're a transracial adoptee. And I just really want folks to sit with that. I really want people to listen to that and sit with that because... That is so harmful. And this is what's happening every day, like in our country. We have people who have these ideologies, this hateful rhetoric, these harmful beliefs, these racist, xenophobic, anti-immigrant beliefs that are adopting Black. and brown children and raising black and brown children in that type of environment and did not even have. I don't even have the word, but couldn't even find it within herself to speak up and to say something. All the while you raised a black daughter. That is sick.

Dr. Noelle:
And so I would say two things. First, the first time I ever heard the N word, it was in that house, she was calling me the N word. The second thing I would say is she did not raise a black daughter. I survived living in that house as a black person, but she did not raise a black daughter.

Lia:
Thank you for that. Yeah, I think it was important to pause there and just really for folks to be able to sit with that because that's absolutely insane. And I'm so sorry that you even had to endure that, you know, because they paid money for you and the state signed off on it. As for me and my no contact journey, I went no contact with my adoptive mom, I think. I think it was in 2018. I too did twice, so I think it was in 2018. And it was after I had, I was going to school in Texas, which was miserable. I was really, really depressed. It was a really racist environment. I don't know if people know who Richard Spencer is, but he's the person who coined the term alt-right. And he came to Texas A&M my first semester there in grad school and they allowed it and it just became this thing. And I just ended up getting, I was organizing a lot and just ended up on all these different lists and black lists and all this different stuff. And it really just got to me. And so I ended up leaving Texas. I didn't even know I was depressed. I had a therapist at the time. who I ended up getting because I knew I was gonna search for my bio family on my mom's side. And she was like, Leah, you're depressed. And I was like, oh, I didn't know that. Like, I don't know what that looks like. And so I ended up leaving Texas, went to go live with my bio sister for a bit, and then that didn't work out, and felt like I didn't really have anywhere else to go. So I ended up coming back to my adopted parents. And my adopted parents are very, very religious people. And I wouldn't consider myself to be a very religious person. I believe in God, but I don't consider myself to be a super religious person. And so that was a point of contingency in their household. And I tried to have a conversation. That didn't work out. And then I was dating somebody at the time that. I guess my mom just didn't like, and she was unwilling to have any sort of conversations. It was basically like, well, is it gonna, I remember her saying like, is it gonna kill you to do this? And I'm like, I didn't say it was gonna kill me. I'm just trying to have a conversation about it because we're both adults. And that didn't work out. And so I was freelancing a lot at the time. I was doing photography and I was tutoring. And so I was in and out a lot. And I came home one day, my mom and I had gotten into it. Don't remember about what. and I tried to get in the house and my key didn't work. So in a matter of, and no, I was gone for maybe like. maybe three hours at most. So in a matter of three hours, she called a locksmith, had the locks changed on the door, and I could not get into the house. I couldn't get in. And so I'm trying to figure out, once I realized what's going on, I'm like, okay, well, I need to get my stuff and I need to get out of here and figure out where I'm gonna go. And so I ended up getting my stuff and my dad, you know, he came outside and I remember he grabbed my hands and he prayed with me and I think like he gave me an apple and he like sent me on my way. sent me on my way and I was just like, okay. crashed on a mentor's couch at Calder and I was like, yo, like, I don't have anywhere to go. Like, can I just come stay until I figure this out? Anyways, so I remember my adoptive dad called or texted me the next day and he was like, you need to speak to your mother. You need to talk to her. And I'm like, I don't have anything to say to her. Like if I say something, it's not going to be good. So it's really just best that I don't say anything to her. So anyways, I ended up coming back to Orlando. and ended up staying with a mentor here for a bit. And that's when I decided I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it because I felt like it was so, I just felt like it was such a bizarre reaction to what happened on top of all of the mistreatment in my childhood. I just couldn't, I couldn't do it. I was already down so bad, Noelle. I didn't need to be put down any further. and she took me there. And so that was the first time that I went no contact. And then I ended up giving her another chance. I don't exactly remember why. And then this last time I sent this text to my parents basically saying, yo, y'all failed. Y'all failed, you did not protect me, you enabled. an abuser, you allowed him to continue to come into the home, you allowed him to continue to cause harm to me. Like you didn't do anything about it. All you did was like protect yourself and like self-preservation. And for my mom, I received like scriptures, you know, like that was always her thing, like using the Bible and religion to just be like, well, like you just need to. forgive and you just need to, you know, do X, Y, and Z. And like, that just wasn't working for me. You can't use that like as an excuse. And then for my dad, it was radio silence. And that was the second time that I had attempted to talk to my parents about it. And both times, like, I really think that I was very, I was very kind. I did not cuss these people out. Like, I was, like, I really feel like I was very kind with them. And I just couldn't take it. Like, I felt like, You did what you did when I was a kid, and now I'm grown, you're still grown, and you're still acting the same way that you acted, and it just was devastating to me, and I just felt like I couldn't do it. I felt like the response was just too inhumane, that you couldn't acknowledge anything that you did or the role that you played and the harm that you caused, the trauma that I'm still trying to recover from because of this. the abuse that you allowed. And so that was. That was back in February, but the no contact was pretty recent with my dad. I don't even know if it's been a month or so. And like, you know, like there was no announcement. There was none of that. It was just like, I'm done because I feel like I've, I've tried and you're just, you're not willing to do anything. You're content with being like bad parents and not having any type of conversation about the harm that you cause or taking any sort of accountability.

Dr. Noelle:
So can you tell me, especially with your dad, the most recent one, can you talk to me a little bit about what that I'm done moment was like for you?

Lia:
Yes, the I'm done moment was I got a text from a cousin in my in my adoptive family on my dad's side. I was like, yo, like, you need to call me or whatever. So I called her. And she's like, such and such found the podcast and such and such found the podcast. And I'm like, okay, like, now I already made a resolve within myself before I started this show. It's a it's a public platform. So of course anybody can find it. And so I wasn't really like worried about that. I already decided that is something that could happen and I already like come to terms with it. So they found it and like just were all talking all this shit about me, you know? And I felt, I just felt like that was so disrespectful because you had the opportunity to speak with me, you know? And like the extended and immediate. family alike, you had the opportunity to speak with me. The phone works both ways. And instead of doing that, or instead of maybe hearing some of the things that you hear on the show and like checking in, like your immediate thought was to just like continue to like talk to each other and keep calling people and like talking about it. And I just felt like for me, that was like the final straw because I just don't, I don't understand how you can, like how you can do that. I don't understand. how that was the choice that you chose to make. But you know, it's so common in black families to just sweep stuff under the rug and just like let it be and not acknowledge anything. And so that was like, that was my I'm done moment. I was tired of being disrespected. I feel like my adoptive parents disrespected me for my entire childhood. And I feel like they chose themselves over and over again. And I felt like it was finally time for me to choose me.

Dr. Noelle:
Yeah, my I'm done moment was, it was like slow motion, all the walls that I had built to keep the pain in came down all at the same time. And so for me, it was this landscape of harm and abuse for 50 years, 50 years of abuse. And I just remember thinking, oh hell no. not this time, I'm done. And it was easy and it was clean and I had no regrets. I had no pain. I did not miss her. I still don't miss her. You know, the cost of this, something I wanna talk to you about, is what did it cost you? The cost for me was I had a beloved grandmother, my adoptive grandmother, maternal adoptive grandmother, who is really the only person who ever showed me kindness or love in my life. And she was dying. And I didn't go. I didn't go to her bedside. My youngest adoptive brother reached out to me to let me know that she was dying. And I said to him, I'm so sorry. Tell her I love her. I cannot come, because I was not going to put myself in the room with this woman ever again. And so I did not get to say goodbye to my grandmother, and I did not go to her funeral. And I just, Casey came up to visit, and I don't know how we got on the conversation, but I told her I didn't know where she was buried. or I knew what cemetery she was buried in, but I had never been to the grave. And Casey, who is always supportive and amazing, was like, come on, we're gonna go find that grave. And we tromped through the graveyard until we found my grandparents' grave. And it gave me such peace to... to have been able to visit their graveside. And it would not have happened if I had to go through her because I just will not do that. I will not put myself in that space. But the cost was cutting me off from the last person that had ever showed me kindness in that family. What about you?

Lia:
That's a good question. I don't know if I know what the cost was. I think that I was holding on to. like breadcrumbs, there's like this, you know, there's like that concept when it comes to abuse of like breadcrumbs. And I think I was really holding on to these small moments of what felt like hope and what felt like support. And I think I had to let that go because if I didn't, I was going to continue to allow it to happen because well, like X, Y, and Z, but like the big overall picture is that like they didn't protect me, you know? So I don't know if that really answers the question. I think it's hard to say the cost, but I can tell you what I did think about was, what am I gaining? What is this bringing me? What are these relationships bringing me? And when I sat there and I thought about it, I really couldn't think of much. And so I think for me, that was part of my. part of my decision making too, because it was like, what do we really have besides these small moments where you're doing the absolute bare minimum? What do we have beyond that? And so that's kind of what ultimately led to it. And I think too, what you said about just seeing this landscape of harm and abuse, I think I saw a lot of that too. I just saw it all laid before me and I was just like, no, I'm not doing this anymore.

Dr. Noelle:
So my adoptive mother does this thing where once a year, she calls my phone and I don't know if you, you do, you have an iPhone. If a blocked number calls you and leaves a message, it goes into a special folder so they can still leave a message. And once a year, she calls my phone and leaves a message. That's how much effort I am worth, once a year. And this year she didn't even call my phone. She Facebooked my daughter and told her to tell Noel Mommy loves her. Tell Noel Mommy Loved Her.

Lia:
once a year.

Dr. Noelle:
Once a year,

Lia:
and

Dr. Noelle:
yeah.

Lia:
see you.

Dr. Noelle:
And you know, that is a violation of my clear desire not to hear from her, but it's also evidence of who she has been this whole time, right? There has never been a real effort to even find out why I stopped talking to her. I don't know if she can connect the dots. One of the things that she wrote on my Facebook page, I was arguing with a conservative gentleman on my Facebook page, and she wrote, I am so sorry for my daughter's behavior. I didn't raise her like that. because I was standing up for the rights of black and brown people. And she's absolutely right. She did not raise me like that.

Lia:
She didn't raise you at all.

Dr. Noelle:
No, I would say not.

Lia:
I think it's interesting that you say that she's never even taken the time to understand maybe why this even happened. And I think that's so common. I know in my situation, my adoptive parents are just like, well, why are you going to be mad about this forever? Can you just like? That was like forever ago and it's like, okay, but this is still like impacting me and what you did was wrong. And so there's just like this huge disconnect. And I think it's, I think it really goes back to like, one, us being like a product, and two, like this grateful narrative that like we should just be grateful no matter what, like because you gave us a roof over our head, like, and you signed this paper, that we just have to be grateful no matter what takes place in this house. And that's just such harmful, such harmful thinking to have. And I wish that, you know, more adoptive parents would think about that. And I saw this post this week, I'll have to see if, I'm probably gonna butcher this, but it was on Facebook and it was talking about if you see that a child has gone no contact with their parents. I want you to think about what happened, what had to take place in order for a child to decide to cut their parents off. It wasn't a decision that was made lightly. Nobody wants to do that. You know what I'm saying? People don't want to do that. And I feel like so often, again, the blame gets placed on the child, and we're supposed to reach out, and we're supposed to rekindle. that connection and we're supposed to do the repairing and all that stuff. But like we were children then and we're still their children, even though we're adults. And so I don't know why the responsibility of the onus falls on us, but I guess because we're adopted.

Dr. Noelle:
I... I think about how unforgiving an environment I was raised in. And yet there's this demand, not just a demand for gratefulness, which we've talked about a lot, right? That we be grateful, but there's this demand from these kinds of adoptive parents that we be forgiving, right? And it's a demand for forgiveness. There's no effort put into being forgiven. There's no apology. There's no process. It's just a demand that we be forgiving. I grew up in the least tolerant, most unforgiving space. And where would I have ever even learned that kind of forgiveness? I try really, really hard to be forgiving with my children because I want them to be able to forgive me as well. But I had no model for the kind of forgiveness that she imagines that she is entitled to.

Lia:
Yeah, there's a pretty big sense of entitlement, I feel like among adoptive parents. So you mentioned you try to be forgiving with your kids. I'm wondering how going no contact or just even coming to that decision, how it's informed or how it's impacted the way that you interact with your kids.

Dr. Noelle:
My greatest fear is to fail so badly as a mother that my children will go no contact with me. That is my greatest fear. And I don't think there's any age where that's no longer a possibility. I'm constantly concerned about mistakes I've made in their past. I try and make sure that when they wanna talk about those things, that I'm open. and I listen and I apologize, but my biggest fear is to be such a failure of a mother that my children will go no contact. I can't even imagine it. But I know it's a possibility. And I think that's one of the things that my adoptive mother could never have fathomed. She's abused all of her children. I'm the only one who walked away from her. And... I don't think she could even ever have imagined that such a thing would happen, even though I had done it before. I mean, the way we got back together the first time is her married boyfriend died and she showed up on my doorstep with my adopted brother to tell me that he died. And I immediately let her back in my life, stood by her at the funeral, stood by her. with all the legal stuff that went down because his wife was entitled to everything and my adoptive mother was entitled to nothing. And so she needed a lot of support. And I never had a second thought about letting her back in my life that night that she came to my doorstep. I was eight or nine months pregnant with my daughter at the time. And... So it's, when you said it's not something that's done lightly, it's something I've done twice. And this second time, I had no hesitation whatsoever.

Lia:
So you mentioned that your greatest fear is that you will fail so badly as a mom that your kids will go no contact with you. And it's a fear that doesn't go away. I'm wondering if you had to give a crash course in how to get your kids to not go no contact with you. What are some things, especially specifically speaking to adoptive parents? Because you mentioned... that you try to be open and you try to listen to your kids, like whenever they do wanna talk, and I think that's one thing, but I'm wondering like what else you think can be done?

Dr. Noelle:
I think when you have those moments of guilt, right, we all have parent guilt, when you have those moments of guilt, really sink into those. The only way that I'm able to hear some of the hard truths about how my children experienced me when they were little is that I've already kind of reflected on huge mistakes. and harm that I caused my children. So when they're talking about those moments, it's not the first time I've thought about it. I've thought about it, I've accepted that I did it, and I've waited for them to need to have those conversations with me. I've tried apologizing ahead of time and found that it was forcing a conversation on them. So they know that they can come talk to me about anything. and they know that they will get someone on the other end of that conversation who says, I am so sorry that I did that to you. So, you know, I don't think that we make these mistakes without any knowledge. I don't believe that. I can say I did the best I can. I can say that I did the best that I could, right? Especially having absolutely no framework whatsoever of what a healthy, mother-child relationship look like. I did the best I could, but that doesn't mean I didn't cause harm. And it doesn't mean that I can't or shouldn't be held accountable for that harm. It doesn't matter how long ago it was. It doesn't matter how many times we have the conversation. It doesn't matter how many times my child brings up the same thing. That is mine. I did that. And I think that part of the reason I'm able to sit in that is that I've already reflected on 30 years of parenting and am well aware of what the mistakes I made are. I'm well aware of it. I call bullshit on anybody who says they don't know that they harmed their child.

Lia:
Whew, that was really emotional to hear as I reflect on my own relationship with my adoptive parents and just how much they try to avoid and escape accountability, said that you call bullshit on anyone who doesn't think that they know the harm that they caused. Yeah, I. I commend you for doing that and just being willing to lean into that. You said something about how whenever your kids come to you with a conversation, this isn't the first time you thought about it. And it honestly made me think about, you know, the reasons a lot of people adopt is because they're unable to have their own kids. And I wonder, like, have you made peace with that? You know what I'm saying? Like have they made peace with the fact that they're unable to do that? Because I feel like a lot of them haven't. They haven't gone to therapy, they haven't done, like they haven't done the work. It sounds like you've done the work. And it sounds like some adoptive parents have not done the work, and they try to do the work by adopting a child. And so it makes me think like, if you're incapable of doing it then, How capable are you of doing it later when it comes to mistakes that you make with your children? Yeah, I don't, I'm like processing this in real time. Like I just, I think it's really beautiful that you are so intentional about hearing your kids. Like I don't know what that's like, you know, to have somebody on the other side. who's going to listen, I feel like I'm always talking to a brick wall, you know?

Dr. Noelle:
In my experience, the only person that can heal them from the harm and trauma that I caused them is me. And so I don't deserve to be commended for causing harm to my children. I'm not even sure that it's beautiful, right? I think it is necessary. I think it is my obligation. And it is an honor and a pleasure that my children allow me in their lives and allow me in their children's lives because they don't have to, right? And so for me, the no contact thing is that we don't have to. And we finally said enough is enough, we don't have to. So I'm gonna make myself as available as humanly possible to do as much healing with them. as I can, as long as they will allow me to.

Lia:
What, I guess as a closing thought, what sort of words of advice might you have for maybe an adoptee who's maybe on the fence about going no contact, maybe they've experienced harm and abuse and they're not sure what to do or what to make of it.

Dr. Noelle:
It is okay to give yourself permission to take a break. You don't have to rip the band-aid off. I mean, both Leah and I have shared that this wasn't the first time that we tried no contact, that we actually did let our adoptive mothers back in our lives. So you don't have to decide forever today. You need to decide what is best for you today. You can take a break. You can try setting boundaries. You know, you have to figure out what your threshold is, because everybody's is different. I can't tell you when it is time to walk away. I can tell you it's not easy to walk away, and everything you're feeling is valid. But you can go no contact, and you can decide it's a horrible idea, and undo it, and you get to make those decisions. you get to set those boundaries. What about you, Leah? What would you tell people about going, especially with yours being so, so fresh, what would you say to people?

Lia:
I would say. definitely take the time to think about it. It's similar to what you're saying, you don't have to rush into it. And I would also say that... Don't... Don't necessarily think about it as hurting someone, because I know that's a lot of what I went through was I feel like I'm upsetting them or I'm hurting them or whatever. But think about what is best for you and what is going to meet your emotional needs and what is gonna help you feel healthy. about the relationship or to be in a healthy relationship. Because sometimes the healthiest thing that you can do is to not be in relationship with somebody. And that's okay, you know? And you're gonna have different emotions and different things throughout the journey, and that's okay too. Just remember that you have the autonomy. And like Noelle said earlier, it is a privilege for parents to have their kids. in their lives and for them to talk to them. It's not a right. It is definitely something that is earned. So yeah, I would say just think about what it is that you need. Be a little bit selfish in protecting your own needs in the process. But yeah.

Dr. Noelle:
Thank you for so much for your honesty and transparency. I really appreciate you. I really, really appreciate you.

Lia:
Likewise. Thanks for joining us this week for our No Contact episode and we hope to see you next time.