Exploring the Impact of Adoption on Mental Health: Insights from Adoptees

Exploring the Impact of Adoption on Mental Health: Insights from Adoptees

Why adoptees are more likely to attempt suicide  

Trigger Warning: Suicide, Suicidal ideation, Involuntary hospitalization

Adoptees are 4x more likely to commit suicide, in this episode we unpack why that is. Being an adoptee is a lifelong sentence, we have to cosplay as someone else’s child, we belong almost nowhere - and on top of all that, we invest emotional labor educating therapists about our mental health. 

Throughout the episode, we answer questions you’ve asked us on Twitter about adoptee mental health. 

 “To be a Negro in this country and to be relatively conscious is to be in a rage almost all the time.” - James Baldwin

What we discussed 

(00:00) Content Warning

(00:47) Should the state fund adoptee therapy?

(02:21) Cosplaying as someone else’s child

(07:40) Why adoptees struggle with mental health

(11:31) Why holidays suck for us

(13:23) Does sharing our experiences help? 

(19:26) The anger inside of us

(24:07) Finding an adoptee-competent therapist OR Finding a therapist that understands adoption OR Finding a therapist you don’t have to teach

(29:10) What works (other than therapy)? 

(32:57) Societal gaslighting against adoptees

Links

Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | Tiktok

Learn more about Lia

Adoptee Therapists: https://growbeyondwords.com/adoptee-therapist-directory/ 

Credits

Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com 

Transcript

Lia:
All right, So we're back for another episode this week and we are talking about adopts and mental healt, which I feel like is a really big topic. Um, so I want to start actually with a tweet that I tweeted. I think last week that the state should be paying for therapy for every adopting for life. What I think about that? Do you agree? Do you disagree?

Dr. Noelle:
I absolutely

Lia:
What are your thoughts?

Dr. Noelle:
a hundred and ten percent agree. I think that reparations are necessary in any Kind of abolitionist movement, and I think that reparations would start with mental health care for all adopts.

Tosha:
I also agree a hundred thousand per cent. and even if you are out of therapy, I think you should be compensated for the therapy that you have paid for. It's actually, I feel like it should be one of those things that's part of the package in the in the beginning. Like therapy is going to be required because of course you know, first time adopted parent. You have no idea what's going to happen. You don't know. but people have been through this. We know where it's telling you everyone therapy Needed. Check ends are needed and I think it needs to be for honestly for adopts and for the adopted parents. I think both sides needed, but most importantly adopts definitely need it.

Lia:
So this is a question that came in on Twitter from Chill and adopt, and it says, How does cause playing as someone else's child impact all of your mental health and adopt mental health. In general, I'll start with this one. I think the way that it impacted me most is probably That I just felt like like I never was good enough. Um, I felt like I can never measure up to anyone's standards, and when I did mess up that something really horrible was going to happen That I was just like disposable and could be replaced really easily. I think it also led to this line of thinking that when things did happen, is it because I'm adopted? Like would this have happened if I wasn't adopted? Um, I've spoken about this on probably every episode, but Um, just like the abuse that I experienced, that was one of the questions I had after it was over. I was like. I wonder if this would have happened to me if I wasn't adopted. Is that like? Is that why I got picked as I was your victim? Um, So I think for me, that kind of how cause playing s someone else's kid has has affected my mental health.

Dr. Noelle:
Um, When you asked that question, I thought to myself, Damn, I've been suicidal for fifty two years. You know, there hasn't been a point in my life where I haven't thought about not being here, Um, ideation, mostly, And you know I'm being honest about that because I think people feel guilty that that they have these thoughts that run through their minds. But for me, letting Of being here felt like the lesser of two evils, and I can remember thinking, especially in my teen years. Why not? Why not? Why be here? My mother didn't want me, So why be here?

Tosha:
I can resonate with that that I'll work backwards. So I felt like. the the way it was told to me is that we wanted to adopt a baby, So after I got to a certain age, I felt like my job was done, and so like, what am I still doing here? So I can understand that there was some very dark times and I still have thought sometimes because it's you know so easy. Sometimes you think and then you think it through, and I think of my own Child. So and that going back to the question cost playing as someone's child. I have never thought about it quite like that. So to me that's a wow statement. Like Wow, we really worth some little actors and we had to keep the script, and whether we were told directly to keep the strict script, we internalized that I am someone who internalized it just like you said La. I felt like I had to be a certain way. Certain things had to be done, And if I didn't do it right, I would get sent back. I was very a a transactional finger when I was younger, So you do this. You're good. You don't do this. That's bad. You could go back so living growing up like that, Pretending And it was that because I knew that I was adopted, so I, that was a whole, like. Oh, you look just like your parents. Oh, thank you, lion like I don't look like them at all, but thank you. M. So it's like little things like that. Are you Act like them? You have mannerisms like them. I'm like No, and as I got older, I used to actually anger me because I'm like. No. I'm not there. like I know how it is. You can be around and grow up in a household and pick up characteristics. Okay, yeah, but I'm like. No. I was just against that because being an adopted, I'm like. No, How can any of their stuff rub up on me? I belong to a whole different family, So it was rough to say the least,

Lia:
I also resonated a lot with what you shared, Noel, and like the suicidal ideation and I've struggled with suicidal ideation since I was ten. I've had a couple of attempts. I've been Baker acted, and it is a miserable experience is very dramatic. I don't wish it on anyone. It's incredibly carseral in nature and M. yeah, I. I strongly correlate the ways in which I have struggled My entire life to being an adopted. I was. I felt like I was always like this puzzle piece that you were trying to force into this spot and it was never. It was never going to work. because it was. it was never meant to be there. And there are statistics out there that say that adopts are four times more likely to attempt suicide. Why do you think that is? what are? What are some of the challenges that that kind of like run through the adopted community.

Dr. Noelle:
So my mental health took a positive turn the day I found a therapist who told me there's nothing wrong with you. You're adopted right. So I think the challenge. one of the challenges is, and this is assuming that you know you don't have abuse in your adoptive home and all the additional stuff. But I think one of the basic challenges is there's not supposed to be anything wrong with you. Yeah, Supposed to be grateful you've been adopted. You have a home. You have people who love you. So these feelings of something being wrong with you have no place. There's no place to put it. There's no one to talk to about it. Adoptive parents are not informed. And so I think that leaves us feeling broken. We feel broken.

Tosha:
And my thought process that kind of led to some of that as well. If you all didn't want me, why should I want me? and at some points it was literally as simple as that, and I call it my dark period. That was just when it was super dark, but I still have dark days, but I didn't care what happened to me. Like when I say living life on the edge do whatever I want, Didn't care. The consequences were and I just had to have people kind of pull me out of it, and it took Kind of talking about it more and more, but that really did it. and the fact that I was chosen had zero effect on me wanting to be here, because I'm like I separated those two things that was for you guys. that has nothing to do with how I actually feel about myself. So as far as the stat s being higher for us, I think there's so many different things, and I feel like until you kind of find a community and find others like you, you kind of suffer in silence. I suffered in silence for a very long time, and sometimes my suffering in silence was actually just that. it's not me on the internet searching for things, not me trying to better myself, just getting into that rock and I almost almost got comforting us. Almost like being in my dark place, being my room under the covers in the dark Is watching T. V, and just letting the world just pass me by couldn't care less. but it's a lot. of. it's a lot of heavy thoughts. and because it's a lifelong sentence, we can't escape it, so maybe that's also why it's not like something that we can shake off. So there's lots of reasons

Lia:
It's a life long sentence. It's like at the core of who we are, it's it's never going to go away, it's it's chronic. Um, I think for me, one of the big reasons that I always struggled with my mental health was there was this deep sense and need for like belonging that I was never going to feel Because I wasn't around my bio family. I wasn't around like Blood. and as I've gotten older, it's gotten even harder. Like As I went into reunion, and I just learned more things. There's always like this. It feels like this hole in my heart and I know that sounds so cheesy, but I literally feel like the physical pain of like damn, like, I wish that my mom was here like. I wish that my foster mom was here like. I wish that I could just give them a hug. I wish they could comfort me right now. I wish they could like. Tell me what what they think I should do in this situation. Um, and sometimes it just gets to be so overwhelming and I don't know about it all, but like I would have friends, Because like the holidays used to be tough for me, so I would have friends who would be like Hey, like you can come home with me and you can be with my family. And it was okay at first because I felt like I finally found that sense of belonging, But then like again, as I got older, I guess I started to come out of the fog. It started to get like, almost like angering, or like I would be jealous. that like dang, like, Why can't I have like these types of relationships? Like, why can I be around my family? sort of have these types of interactions.

Tosha:
And I would do the same. I would go with some of my friends and my. It felt good at first, but in the actual moment so like, maybe the first fifteen, twenty minutes of being there, I'm like, Oh, this is great. this is awesome. Then I would sit back and then I get jealous, then I get envious and I would go in my head one to where my family is one, or what they're doing. So at some point I stopped doing that kind of isolated myself and would just wish the holidays would pass by as quickly as humanly possible,

Dr. Noelle:
I did a lot of holidays with friends, lots of holidays with friends, lots of holidays where they gave my children a Christmas because I didn't have the famiLiar, support and reunion is difficult for me because they're not poor people there. they're not resource. fin. Um, and there's a lot of them and I have to now sit at New family gatherings, new gatherings, still feeling like a stranger and wondering why they gave me up. Why why did they give me away when they clearly had the resources to take care of me

Lia:
So this is another really great question from Twitter that I think is really pertinent to us. It says, How has speaking about your life experiences impacted your mental health?

Dr. Noelle:
When we got off the panel last night, I was exhausted. like drained. I was emptied out. It was so it was not cathartic. It was gutting. Um, I felt just Utterly empty

Tosha:
So normally talking about it, I think at first it helped, but now I think I've talked about it so much. I'm not really sure what it's doing, And like after the after the piano last night, it was almost like a high. in a way I had to to bring. I wasn't energetic, but I had to bring myself down a little bit. My emotions were just kind of all over the place, so that was, that was a different experience, But mostly now when I talk about it, you know we have these recordings and I leave and I just kind of want to sit in my own space for a little bit. kind, Calm down a little bit. I would think it does help, because before I, even though I say I'm an open book, it was mostly just saying Hey, I'm adopted. Hey, I'm adopted. Hey, I'm adopted, but actually going deeper into those conversations, I do believe that is helping me. If I wasn't doing this. I believe I would just be spewing on my heart and guts One Twitter and I don't, although it's good to release that, I think this. this is actually more theracputic, because we're actually having conversation And it's supportive. You know. this is a safe place. We can say whatever we want. We can share all of our feelings, and it feels protected and safe, so if anything, talking about it has helped me to mature and to grow into this space, even though it's in every evolving space Because you know we have reunion. We have different things pop up and change and find out different things about ourselves. But for the most part I think it's therapeutic.

Lia:
I feel like you was throwing shade a little bit when you was talking about Twitter and spilling your

Tosha:
Do

Lia:
guts.

Tosha:
you see what

Lia:
Because

Tosha:
I put on there?

Lia:
that's me one hundred per cent. I'll be going in on Twitter like I just get so frustrated and so angry, and it's been really therapeutic for me to release. In that way, I think specifically and writing and specifically on Twitter. Because adopted Twitter will come and chime and I feel very like validated in my experience, and I think so much of adoption is centered around silencing adopts, and de centering adopts. That Think, for me it was so important to be able to tell my story and share my experience and tear down this narrative. That adoption is this beautiful thing, and I found my forever home and all of my problems went away, and I just had this amazing life and that couldn't be further from the truth. Um, so I think I find I find it really helpful to be able to talk about it, but there are definitely moments where I have to like recharge and things like that. That's um, You know, eventually we'll take breaks with this podcast right, we'll have a season ending and then we'll take a break and we'll come back because we need to be able to recharge and take care of ourselves and and things like that, So yeah,

Dr. Noelle:
For me. It's the rage. so even as a young child I would have these rages, Um that they would pick me up and put me in the bath tub and turn the cold shower on me to get me to stop Um. raging. And I still feel that rage and it takes a lot of energy to control that right. It's it is so amazing. I love sitting here talking to you all. Um, but two episodes ago I think it was. I got off and I was so deeply angry. I was filled with rage and there is there's no where to put it. There's there's nothing that I can do with it. No one's going to tolerate a fifty two year old having a literal temper tantrum. Um, you know, there's no place for that, So for me, that piece of my mental health goes unattended Because there's nothing. There's nothing I can do with the rage. I have to function in everyday life in the world, and if I gave into that impulse or to that feeling, if I tried to take care of myself in that space, I would be institutionalized. I think so you know stuff it, and carry it along with me Has been my strategy.

Tosha:
I would say It's interesting You say that because Because I keep saying the lifelong sentence, there's some of the symptoms that will never ever ever go away, and for mine, it's this deep, profound sadness that I have and I have to fight that Every day it's so much easier to give in, but I will not be functional and I know that, and trust me, some days I'm like bump this. I am not feeling it, but I know where it comes from and just like you know, there's no where to put it, I can't do anything with It benefits me. I just wish I could literally cut it out. just like just for a day. Sometimes you know,

Lia:
I really resonate with what? both, If you all said, The rage and the sadness and the anger. Um, my therapist often tells me that anger is a secondary emotion, usually to sadness, and I feel like I have so much anger inside of me that I never really had the chance to express or explore as a child like it wasn't okay. Like what are you angry about Like you need to be grateful. You know, so there was never. I feel like there's never any room for adopts to be angry. Because then that would mean that like we're wrong. somehow. Um, but no, when you were talking about like just how the rage has nowhere to go, and you just have to keep like navigating through life. Um. It reminded me of this quote by James Baldwin and it says, To be a negro in this country, and to be relatively conscious is to be in a ray Almost all the time, And I think that applies here. Not only are we three adopted, we are three black adopts, and I think that that means something you know, and I certainly resonate with with this, Um. with this quote.

Dr. Noelle:
Amazing quote. Thank you so much for that, Lea. That's an amazing quote and I was always Taught to be guilty or ashamed of that range. Um, no one tried to help me figure out what it was or what was causing it. I was just a bad girl and then I was a difficult teen ager And you know now I'm an angry black woman, So there has never been a place to process and I imagine that you're right, right. The root of that is deep sadness, but I feel more alive when I'm angry. If I gave into that sadness, it would be a death sentence. Yeah,

Tosha:
So basically being a black adopted, it's like a thousandfold essentially, and I definitely have my rage in me as well. It is right below the surface and I think kind of the areas in me, the ficiness in me. I, I can be a little short tempered. I'm a type of person. It takes a lot to get me upset, but once I am there, It takes a whole lot to call me back down. So you know I also share in the rage, So you know if rage and sadness are coupled, I guess we'rein a famiLiar, sad, dark rageful place. Oh goodness,

Lia:
So this next question says, As adopts start to speak out and advocate for themselves and others. What advice do we have on prioritizing mental health?

Dr. Noelle:
Such a great question, I mean, as we have been very transparent here, given you many possibilities around what adopts might be experiencing. I think you have to prioritize your own health, first, your own mental health first, Because you could do a lot of damage. Um, try and help others before you help yourself. So you know I can't express enough that we should all be in therapy, every One of us, and until that happens, we should not be trying to help other people. Um, tell someone you love them. tell them to go to therapy. But you know that whole, That whole getting involved when you're not healthy is a recipe for disaster. For sure.

Tosha:
I have to agree, and if I was not where I was in my therapy journey, I would have never signed up to do this. There were moments in the past where I wanted to just do something similar. Every attempt was a failed attempt, because I just was not mentally ready. and you know, sometimes when you're filed with too many strong emotions, you can't even think straight, and that's where I was. I found myself I couldn't focus like Okay, do I focus on abolish advocacy? changing this, changing that I was everywhere, and Once I got through the trauma side of my did that ed m r stuff the trauma side of my therapy sessions. I was able to kind of see more clearly on the other side, so I'm not an active therapy right now. I have my tools, but she use one phone call away and I will be restarting it soon. Don't worry, guys.

Lia:
All right, you can stay. Um, so Um, when it comes to prioritizing my mental health, I am probably like the biggest advocate for therapy, and I think we all advocate pretty hard for therapy. We've all talked about our experiences with therapy. Um, and I think there's a level of uniqueness with therapy. I think everyone should go to therapy point blank period, but I think as adopts there's that added layer of a Option. and again it's at the court of who you are. And so sometimes it makes it challenging to find a good therapist Right and I don't know about you all, But it took me several therapist until I found the right one who understood that adoption was trauma and it wasn't something that was just going to go away, And it was the lines in which I saw everything in my life in the line In which I operate. And so it's important as my therapist that you're able to understand that right, and like, um, my therapist, Um, she was adopted competent, and prior to seeing her I didn't even know That was a thing. I was on therapy for black girls dot com. Looking for therapist came across her profile and I was like adopted, competent, like I've never seen that before, and I looked into it A training that that therapist can take, and when I tell you it made a world of a difference like I felt like I didn't have to explain so much and I felt like I was validated and I wasn't told you know that I needed to be grateful, But it took several therapists before I got there. Um, can I'll just share maybe a little bit about like what your experience was like as it pertains to therapy.

Dr. Noelle:
I think finding that right therapist is everything. So I have to tell this story by giving a negative example because it's hilarious. Um, I went to a therapist and she was trauma informed and all that good stuff. I'm sitting in her office and we start the conversation and she says we'll tell me about you and I start with Well, I'm a trans racial adopted, and she said, Transratial. What is that? And I sat for the next twenty minutes and taught this woman about trans racial adoption And I never went back. I never went back to her because I just thought how, how do you not have any clue whatsoever? This is not someone that can help me, So finding the right person. finding someone who understands adoption is everything, and finding someone who has this Competency, I think is a next step for me. I mean, I have a therapist who who is great about adoption, But this is not a competency that she has. Um, and I think that I want that in my life,

Tosha:
Well, my journey to therapy actually started with being apparent. I needed some help just dealing with my baby daddy. So once we got past that, I recognize that I had traumas and I recognized that she wasn't the best person for it, so I had to, I stopped therapy with this therapist, and once I, and with her that was not even too long ago. I didn't realize that adoption was what was affecting me, So once I realize that adoption is trauma, that's what. And to psychology today, I think that's the website and you can pick certain things. And so I picked adoption, and I found the lady, and she legit. said All right Tosh a person. If our energies don't match, this won't work less. Just say our energies matched and it was great and I felt seen and she could really help. And you don't feel like you have to explain yourself. Because with my first therapist and similar to your experience now, well, I was explaining some adoption things. I ended up almost having to console her. She starts crying and stuff and I'm so sorry. I'm like, Oh no, Am not in the right place Like this Is very awkward right now. So and I was really taking back about how many therapists are not equipped or qualified to talk to adopt Es, about the issues like there are so many of us. I'm up to this point. If you want a make money, you'll missing out right now. Seriously and I thought about doing it Self, but I am nowhere healed enough to ever do that self.

Lia:
Most definitely a market there for adopts. Um. No, will you said something about being trauma informed? I think that is also equally as important because as we stress here every episode adoption is trauma, so I think that's another important component of finding a good therapist. Um, What are some of the things I guess out outside of therapy that have helped with, like maintaining or keeping your mental health afloat.

Dr. Noelle:
Music and performance for me. M. So speaking of cost, play right, I'm quite the little actress, Um, and I'm I'm very good at dramatic scenes, if you will. Um. So having found a place to perform, Um to do music, Um has been huge for me and it's something that's currently missing in my life right now, Like I really need to get back to it post pandemic, But that was a place where I could go and be And you know, I don't know if you've done theater, but you build a little community, you build a little family. It was a very open and accepting space always, and got me through some some rough times.

Tosha:
It's funny you mentioned that I really really wanted to be a theater person. I just can't remember lines at all, and I really exactly like I got the personality. I can have different characters, so I make up stuff, but I really wish I could do things like that. I am some one who. Before therapy I'm a puzzler. I love puzzles which has turned into liking adult legals, and I hate saying adult legs because that sounds you know, suggestive, but I love putting things together. But what I realized is that I am that puzzle piece. I am that Lego and I had to take a step back. I'm like this is a deeper activity than I thought it was, but it takes me out of my head and I'm an escape person anyways. anything escapy, like period pieces, getting lost in a good mystery. Basically not trying to be myself.

Lia:
So I'm not surprised that you struggle

Tosha:
You

Lia:
to

Tosha:
know what

Lia:
remember your lions, but

Tosha:
I feel at?

Lia:
I'm gonna leave you alone for the rest of this episode. I promise you threw shade at me, so I'm just giving it back. Um. I forgot. What

Tosha:
See

Lia:
the question was? What that? What did I ask you?

Tosha:
How do we get through without therapy or with other

Dr. Noelle:
What?

Tosha:
things?

Dr. Noelle:
besides therapy gets us through.

Lia:
Oh yes, thank you. thank you. Um. So I guess for me, I would say, probably advocacy, Um, and I think specifically like, I think advocacy for children, because I think oftentimes I think about my own childhood and I think about all the adults who like passed me by all the adults who didn't intervene or speak up for me. Um, and so I've always found myself up until recently working around kids, like, whether that was at a summer camp, Whether it was I was a teacher or volunteering. whatever the case may be, I found myself Um, working with kids in some shape. Former capacity. Um. So I think for me some of my healing comes through advocacy work. Um, and I would also say I think just engaging with the adopted community because it helps me Not feel alone. Um, someone was sharing their experience earlier today on Twitter about how they sent this letter to their adoptive mother and at the end asked them to go to therapy and their response was absolutely trash and it reminded me of a couple of years ago when I sent an email to both my parents and my adopted mother's response was trash, and my adopted dad didn't respond. And then you know, most recently a few weeks ago sin, A text that was basically resulted in the same type of response. Um, so it really comforts me in some what feels sort of like sick way that I'm not alone because you know I don't want people to be in pain and have to experience these things, but it's good to know that like I'm not going through this by myself. So this is more of a statement that somebody replied to us on Twitter and just wondering if you have any thoughts about it. So professionals routinely tell us to re, frame, re, frame adoption in favor of the adoptors. I don't know about anyone else, but for me this was a form of systemic harm. The societal gas lighting happening against us since childhood might be good to address.

Tosha:
Anyone

Dr. Noelle:
I feel like it's a complete statement. I feel like.

Tosha:
Like how do I add that? Like you

Dr. Noelle:
Yes,

Tosha:
said a girl,

Dr. Noelle:
Yes, that is correct. I like the terminology of societal gas lighting. That's amazing phrase. That's an amazing phrase, but I feel like that that statement is complete the way that it is. I'm glad that you read it, but I have nothing to add to it. I just a big Amen.

Lia:
Okay, So if you had to give some advice to, we'll say to adoptive parents or perspective adoptive parents about about mental health, what would it be? and then also if you were, If you were to give advice to your younger self, what would you say?

Dr. Noelle:
I would have told my younger self to get out the number of times that I contemplated running away. I should have ran and the running takes a lot of different. You know. There's metaphoric running. What not? But I stayed in it long enough to harm myself. to be harmed, I would say, and I do say to my friends who are adopting or have it Dopted. Um, don't wait to get your child mental health care. I don't care how happy that baby is. I don't care how well adjusted you think your child is. Have that space be. M available to them right, so that when things hit the fan, it's not the first time that they've stepped in a therapist office. They are already comfortable there. They have someone that they can Al too, Because there's the sense that well, my child can talk to me about anything. That's what they always say. My child. don't talk to me about anything. That child is going to tell you what they want you to hear, so that you don't give them back, So, making sure that they have a place where they can actually talk and actually feel safe, have some confidential conversations when they need them and have a place to go when ship hits the fan. Um, that is your responsibility as an adoptive parent.

Tosha:
The advice I would have to give to my younger self would be to seek help sooner and pay attention to how I'm feeling. I would always give an excuse to mask it something else. But but maybe that's because the space didn't feel safe enough to seek help sooner, which goes back to kind of the advice where perspective adopted our adopted parents. Everything that Noel said literally everything. I kind of feel like. Um, maybe You not want to get the child therapy because you want to keep an image, but you got what you wanted already. You adopted a child. Let's focus on the child like it will still legally be your child. So let them get the help they need, Like the idea of giving em to therapy at an early age to make them feel comfortable, Um, Because you know you have adults that struggle. it's uncomfortable. and so if you get rid of those barriers, Um, maybe that will help, especially in this day in age where mental health doesn't quite have the same stigma that it had in the past. Go ahead and introduce it at an early age. It's going to be better off for the child, which could in turn make a better experience for everybody.

Lia:
So the advice I would give my younger self is probably to keep talking. anyway. Um, I was silenced as a child and so I think that I would just tell the little Lea to keep keep talking until you find somebody safe to help you. Um, and then, as far as advice to perspective or current adoptive parents, M again, echoing what Nolantasha already said, M. Yeah, make therapy Like the same way that you would go to your doctor every year for a check up. I mean, go more often than that, but you know the same. I think the same principle applies like I think. oftentimes folks don't think of like mental health in the same way we think of physical health. but like the brain is like an organ and you got to take care of it too, so I think it's important that like we have these conversations and that adopts, They have a safe place to be able to go and and talk to somebody. And there's a list out there floating around. I'll have to find it. I've seen it on Adopt Twitter and Facebook a ton. I mean, yeah, but there's It's a list of a therapist who are adopts. I believe there may be some one there that are adoption competent. I'll have to find it and post it in our show notes. Um, but you Therapy is a beautiful thing, and I encourage every adopted to take care of themselves. I think we find ourselves doing a lot of free emotional labor, which is not our jobs, by the way, but in doing this work it's really important to take care of yourselves.