Navigating Parenthood as Adoptees: Insights from Dr. Noelle and Tosha

Adoptees as parents

Parenting as an adoptee 

What’s it like when you’re adopted and then become a parent? We discuss the unexpected joys and reliefs of parenting, the mistakes we were almost programmed to make, how parenting can heal us, how to tell your children you’re adopted, and being careful about not placing a burden on our children that they aren’t equipped to carry. 

PS: If it isn’t clear yet, we would never put our children up for adoption. 

What we discussed 

(00:00) How being an adoptee affects the way you parent OR Adoptee parenting patterns

(05:46) Being a helicopter mom

(07:16) “No way I was putting my child up for adoption”

(08:47) Late discovery adoptees 

(11:29) Telling your kids you’re adopted 

(16:34) Are adoptees better parents?

(20:51) Disadvantages of being an adopted parent OR Biggest regret as an adopted parent

(25:57) Parenting and healing 

(31:15) Greatest joy of parenting 

(33:55) Advice for adoptive parents

(35:31) Legacy 

Links

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Learn more about Lia

Credits

Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com 

Transcript

Lia:
All right, So for today's episode we're going to be talking about adoptees as parents. I am not apparent, but Tosha and Noel are, so this will be sort of an interview style show and I will get to kick back and relax and I will be back for the next episode For real For real. All right, so I guess we can start with. Do you feel like being an adopted has impacted the way that you parent? And if so, what are some of the ways in which you feel like it has

Dr. Noelle:
So. I would love to tell a back story. a bit of a back story about my eldest son. So when I was pregnant with him, my adoptive mother continued to express this concern that I would not be able to bond with the child because I had not bonded with her. So there was a plan to take him from me because she felt that I could not bond with anyone, because I had not bonded with her, so I was terrified that somehow I was going to reject my child, and the exact opposite happened. happy to report, but I was so concerned that I would not be able to love a child because I didn't have any feelings of love for my adopted family.


Lia:
like Um, being an adopted has impacted the way your parent, and, if so, in what ways

tosha:
Okay, So for me when I think about being a parent and being adopted in parenting, I'm not sure if it's affected the way I parent. I started up being a helicopter mom. So maybe so, but it definitely affects some of the decisions I make. I'm more protective. Perhaps that is a side effect. I'm not sure he's six years old and has never been baby sat by anyone else Outside the family. We also live in a crazy world that could be part of it, too, but most of my issues started before he was born. Um. the thought process in thinking about how could someone give up a child was definitely, Uh. That was weighing heavy on my mind. Like how could this happen? So I kind of went into my head a little bit, and when my child came, I wanted. I isolated myself. I just wanted to do everything on my own. I think being adopted, Definitely effect Did that. Um, and we talk further about stuff like this farther along, but I also, I wasn't sure if I was reading into it, but with my mother not being able to have a child of her own, I didn't know. Somethings felt kind of off and kind of weird and just kind of uncomfortable. so I said, let me just isolate myself. Focus on me and my child and I can get back to any adopting related issues. As far as being a parent later on,

Dr. Noelle:
I resonate with that. So my M, baby daddy, as they say, Um, he wanted me to put my first born up for adoption, the same child that I was talking about, as far as as connecting and bonding with him, and he wanted me to. We're both adopted and he wanted me to put him up for adoption, And there was no way in blue hell that I was putting my child up for adoption. Absolute Could not do it. I knew I was keeping that baby from the day that I knew that I was pregnant,

tosha:
Yeah, for me, adoption was never ever on the table. I am a pro choice. so for me it was either that or I'm keeping this baby So obviously that's what I did, but I just and when I was back when I was in the fog, adoption was an option. I was like, Oh, I was adopted. This is great. I want to do later on as well. I am so out of the fog. I can't even believe I ever even thought that there is no way.

Lia:
I'm not apparent. but I really resognated with what Tosa just said, Because I used to be like that, too. I was like, Yeah, I really want to adopt. I want to give back and that just sounds so disgusting coming out of my mouth right now. Like if somebody were to say that to me, I would look at them crazy. So I have a question. Actually, Have a question for you. So you were saying that your baby daddy, both of you all were adopted and you never thought of adoption Crossed your mind, But it was something that he suggested. Would you say that he was still in the fog? Is that part of why you feel like he suggested that, or was at least open to it?

Dr. Noelle:
So he was a late discovery adopted. He didn't find out that he was adopted until he was in high school, and then he also found out that his sister was his mother, so he had a lot going on that I think he had not process, But for him adoption happened all in his family. It did not have the same kind of severance that mine had had. Um, so I think we were coming from Very different places. as far as adoption goes. I mean, he had his biological mother in his life. his whole life. He didn't necessarily know who she was for a period of time, but he never actually lost her, so I think we were coming from very different places around. adoption. For me, adoption was just catastrophic, and I couldn't imagine putting a baby through that, and like Tata, it would have either been an abortion or I was having the baby And I really, I decided to have the baby.

tosha:
What was the reason? if you don't mind me asking for wanting to put up for adoption. Was it resources age? like? What did he give? A reason? Didn't want to be apparent.

Dr. Noelle:
We were nineteen. We had had sex with each other exactly one time, and he. didn't you know we didn't have a commitment to each other in any particular way, And we were very young, and I do think that not being together had something to do with it, but he. He just didn't think that we should try and raise the child.

Lia:
That's really interesting. I think it'd be really interesting to have a conversation with an adopted who was adopted within their family, because I do think that that. I imagine that would make for a different experience because it is indeed family like you are with biological folks, but you might not be with your your parents, so I think that would make for an interesting episode. Also, you said he was a late discovery. Adopted it. That would be really interesting to talk about to as well, Um, so I want to. I want to pose this question that came in on Twitter

tosha:
M.

Lia:
from the user Chile and adopt, and it says, How do you explain your grief to your kids And how does cause playing as someone else's child impact? I'll actually estimate for the mental health episode. So anyway, how do you explain your grief to your kids?

Dr. Noelle:
I think now that my children are older, they really appreciate what I went through as a child and they appreciate what I'm feeling towards my biological mother. Now my biological mother and her husband are coming up to visit for the first time in April, and my children are very excited to meet their grandparents and you know I think they really appreciate it. I did not get a good adopted mother by any stretch of the imagination, and by virtue of being a ship adopted mother, she was also a ship, adoptive grandmother, So they had no grand mother, no grand parent experience at all. So it was really not not ever a conversation. I don't remember ever sitting down with them and explaining to them how painful this was or anything like that. Find that they're very protective of me around it. So they were very protective and hesitant around my biological mother for a while, just because I think they weren't sure how that was going to turn out.

tosha:
And for my situation, my son is just six, so I've kind of started to mentally prepare myself for whenever that conversation does happen, I would have preferred to be in control of said conversation, but my mother already let him know that I did not come from her belly, and I was not privi to that conversation, Didn't know it had happened. He came to me after, So she does even know we had that conversation, so I'll have to visit that. At some other time, I would have preferred to have full owner Above that, so speaking of being protective, I'm goin to be very protective of that. I want him to understand it in a very healthy way, and I don't want him to look at them any differently or anything like that, so that's why I prefer to have that conversation with him. You know, I don't even want O put a age out there, because every kid is different. Everyone matures differently, handles information differently, but when we have that conversation it will be a beautiful conversation. I want to protect it. I want to know that Mint Health is something that we need to focus on. Um, and I just want him to make sure that he grows up. Not being someone who teases people about it. makes a joke about it. You know what we're trying to do here is what I'm going to instill in my child.

Dr. Noelle:
I think my children knew my whole their whole lives. I think my children knew their whole lives that I was adopted. I don't ever remember having a moment where I explained to them what adoption was, or explain to them that my adopted mother was not my biological mother. I don't remember ever having those conversations with them. I think they just always knew that I was adopted, so there wasn't this this big reveal for them. As Tosha was talking, I was thin Ing about. I had this. I had this moment in time where I felt like my children didn't appreciate that I kept them that they didn't appreciate that giving them up was an option. Um, I've walked that back. I now realize that that was some sort of grateful narrative that I was drawing around my children, Um, and unfair narrative at that, but Don't think it's ever occurred to them that They weren't given up for an adoption or that they live with their biological mother, Et cetera like I don't. I don't think that I instilled anything in them that caused them to have that realization

Lia:
It makes me think just about like how, there's almost some level of privilege to have been raised or grown up with your biological parents, and unfortunately a privilege that we didn't get to experience. but I feel like it's one of those things where it's like You don't really know because you don't. you don't know anything different. Like this is the only experience that you've ever had. Um, have another question for you guys. So what are some of the positive ways, or or maybe things that you think are advantageous as an adopted, and like just paranting.

tosha:
I would say, For me, it's the mental health part. like there were some struggles that I had with my son, Um, just being a super energetic child and I think with my experience with being an adopted, me going to therapy. I did not hesitate to seek help for him, and I kind of think if I was someone who did not have my own mental health struggles, I may have dismissed. it may have said, Oh, he's just a boy. He had high energy and would have dismissed it, but I think me beat in tune to mental health Is definitely going to help raise him because case in point, my mother, she is not someone who's really into mental health. she always asked me. Are you done yet? You still need to go where you taking medication. You know things of that nature like she hasn't embraced it, because I guess she'd rather create her own world and doesn't want anything to affect that. but with me being adopted, I want to make sure that I keep him safe and let him know that you know you can talk about things and it's okay. So being adopted, I think I'm more sensitive to certain issues.

Dr. Noelle:
For me. I think that I have this ferocious fiery love for my children. It's a. it's a a deep, primal love for my children. Having them raising them. I raised I raised them alone. My daughter's father died when she was in fourth grade. I think so. I have single parentage, All three of them, Although I did have a partner for a period of time for my youngest and there was just a deep un abiding love for my children, I knew that they were precious in ways that I don't think nonadoptes have to think about. Um. I knew not only did I know that they were precious, I also understood that there was a system there that if I Step, if I couldn't cut it, If I didn't do what I needed to do, there was a system there that would come and take them away, and so I lived in fear of that as well, But I just have a deep, primal, fiery love for my children and there was something about having them that was healing for me as an adopted and it allowed me to love someone. I was related to see someone that look Like me for the first time in my life,

tosha:
That part was huge for me like I had this whole empty void my entire life not ever sing. So that looked like me and that bond right there didn't feel the whole void, but it definitely had a huge impact on that internal void that I had, so that that was something that I didn't expect. it would hit me as hard as it did, which made it even worse. like, how could someone give a child up? I do not understand right. I can definitely resonate with that.

Lia:
That's so beautiful at this present moment. I'm very like I want to be the cool black ant, but that was really beautiful. Like my best friends. She often asked me like Leo. Don't you want to see like your Dan on somebody else's face and I'm like, Yeah, kind of, but like also, kids are a lot of work and I'm kind of selfish right now and I like my alone time. I like to go to the bathroom in peace. Like So. I'm good, but that is really beautiful to be able to see your face on someone else and seeing someone that you're related to, so on the flip side of that, what are some you know? disadvantages or ways that are maybe like maladaptive, as you know, in adopting and parenting,

Dr. Noelle:
So I was really super hard on my boys. They had to be perfect. They had to be clean all the time. Um, they were not allowed to act like children most of the time, you know, unless they were at home in a safe space in their room playing. I really had this Expectation of them and I know that I was very very hard on them, And the other thing is, and I shared this on our blackness episode. My oldest son said to me, I wish that you were the black woman that you are now when you were raising us, So I had this very extremely messed up way that I raised them that I'm owning. You know, I didn't know any better. I had been told my whole life to be quiet, and to you know, not be angry and not be violent in all of those things, And so I translated that directly to them, and there were no other examples for me for parenting. So yeah,

tosha:
I can definitely understand that. Um, I guess part of my the hard part for me is raising him while I'm dealing with the trauma that adoption comes with and being adopted, the ups and downs, sometimes more downs and up then feeling guilty, Um for feeling down, not being able to explain it to him. Why Mommy is not so happy, Why mammy's eyes are wet. You know things like that, Recognizing when I need to talk to someone because, at the end of the day, then I get more upset that I've affected my child and I hate that, and then I over compensate and want to go here when to go there, working through my stuff through him. Um, and I was a perfectionist growing up and I'm trying really hard to make him. Not the same way you know. Try your hardest. do your best, but I don't want to pass on my fears and my Promise to him, and I think sometimes I may go too far in the opposite. You know, I used to be like. Let's make sure we're reading all the time ethng'supposed to do, and then at one point I'm like you haven't any of that in a long time. What's going on and having to dig down deep and recognizing where it's coming from and then having to constantly reset myself, so at least I recognize it. but it can be. It can be tough sometimes.

Dr. Noelle:
The house that I was raised in was so violent, and you know, I will admit that I spanked my children. I spanked the boys, and I thought it was necessary to have that kind of punishment to raise good boys, especially good black boys. That they needed this hardness from me, that little girl, my daughter. I never touched a hair on that girl's head. She she, you know, she, she. She grew up very different than they did, And she grew up to be equally as wonderful a human being as they did. And it is my biggest regret is that I did not feel like I could love them. Um through life. I felt like I had to heard them. I had to drive them through life as one of my biggest regrets.

Lia:
You must have read my mind. Well, My next question was going to be. Is there anything that you wish that you could have done differently? Um, now that you know well, I know your kids are grown, and I guess for you, Tosha. like, Is there anything that maybe you were doing before and maybe you kind of realized, Hey, like this might be like my trauma coming through and kind of adapted to do it in a different way.

tosha:
Yeah, just like what Noel said, I did the same thing. I grew up in a heavy handed household a little bit. Um. and so I noticed I was doing the same thing, so I'm not sure if that's really adoption or adopted related. Just you know, kind of mimicking the household. M. But then as I kind of think about how she grew up and things that she went through, maybe I am doing that. I have no idea, but Yeah, that's probably regret because I looked back and I have those images of me put my hands on him and then they're so innocent and so fragile and you feel terrible, and I haven't done that in so long, and in a lot of ways it's not even all that effective, so that's probably one of my biggest regrets.

Lia:
UmTosha. You said something earlier. I don't remember the exact phrasing, but essentially like using. I think like using your child as a means to like, heal, or something to that effect is. Is that what you were what you were saying,

tosha:
No,

Dr. Noelle:
Yeah, I was talking about that, M. Yeah, it was healing for me to have my children again to have the opportunity to raise them. There was something about keeping them. So I had Matthew when I was nineteen turning twenty. I had Joshua when I was twenty three. I was a single mother. I had two baby daddies, Yes, I did. I have three baby daddies Total. Yes, I do. but I, You know, not keeping them was absolutely an option. My adopted mother was pushing for me to give up custody of my children and went as far as making sure that I did not have what I needed. She was hoping that I would just give up custody because I couldn't do it on my own, so it was healing to me, especially when they got to the age Where they were in middle school high school. Um. There, fantastic boys are fantastic athletes, Um, and musicians and I can remember going to their events and feeling healed. that that that I produced, that that I was some part of who they were, was always so healing for me. Whenever someone still to this day is like, Well, they look like you, or we all have to say Nose. I'm sure they could wish I gave them some other feature, but they all got my nose. Um, Whenever somebody says that, when someone says my grandchildren look like me or act like me, that is healing for me.

tosha:
And so what I was saying for me, it kind of helped feel a void of not having ever seeing any of my relatives, and at first, for for my son when he first came out, he did not look like me and I used to cringe like he looks like me now, So that does help. but you also run the risk of your saying you want a little bit me, or they don't come out looking like you at all. And that happened so many times so even if he never ever look like me, knowing he Came from me, I don't think that would have ever affected anything whatsoever. So you know, as far as no one was speaking about healing, it definitely helps you know. not to say that you need to have a child to heal yourself. Definitely not saying that, because being a parent has so many challenges, but for me, I was always chasing that void. I think that was the biggest issue. I think, maybe because rowing up as a single single growing was an only child, Knowing I had siblings, I just always Felt so empty like I knew there was more out there, so just having him just helped to fill it a little bit. And then I wanted to be careful of not putting a burden on him like I was like. I got got to be very very careful with that, and I think to avoid that, making sure I don't put him on any pedostools or anything like that, just let him be his true self, which is the complete opposite of how I felt I grew up.

Dr. Noelle:
Yeah, I feel like I burdened, especially my oldest son. I feel like I burdened him with the responsibility of being my family. You know, it was all about was the first time that I had home a real home with people that I was related to, and I think that I put a lot of pressure on him again with the perfectionism, but also pressure on him for Um, you know, being loyal, You know all these kinds of traits that don't belong to children, right, Um, Just expecting him to be my, used to say, my little man, and he didn't deserve that.

Lia:
Tash? You said something about letting your son, letting him be his true self, and how you felt like you didn't. It was the complete opposite of your experience. Um, and I resonated with that a lot. I felt like my adoptive parents wanted to morfe me into something that was acceptable to them instead of allowing me to just be myself and whatever I turned out to be, And I feel like now I'm on this journey of trying to figure out who the hell I actually am and it's a really beautiful journey, but I feel like it could have started this way from the beginning and it didn't happen that way because of adoption. Um, so what would you say is your greatest joy as a parent?

Dr. Noelle:
I have raised three of the most stellar human beings. They are amazing. They're all doing so well in their lives. Um, they're well adjusted. They're kind. They're thoughtful, but I think the greatest joy is that I made siblings. So when we're all together, all of the kids and the grand kids together, I just kind of sit back and I just marinate in this joy. It just comes up from inside Me, knowing that I, I created that and the way the three of them get along together, Um is amazing and they're so loving and they're such great siblings and they have each other's back a hundred and ten per cent. And that is my greatest joy.

tosha:
I'd say my greatest joy right now is the fact that he is growing up being an individual being encouraged in things that he likes, just just the little kid in him. You know he's sick, So he's still silly and the laughter and the joy. And you know I have a rough day and and he just wipes it all away. And and that that brings me the greatest joy. and I hope one day that he will have actual Siblings from me. He's got half siblings. But um, I can't wait for that to happen because being the only child is very lonely and I want him to have some one and to have that bond and not to go back to other things. But I think the reason I have one right now is because my only wanted one and she made a comment. You have another. We're not able to help, Re not, It's gonna be kind of a bird, and I'm like I'm not looking to you all to help me. If I have a other. I'm a grown adult. I'll figure that out so well, I hope to Be able to tell that story later on in life when I have another and they grow up to hopefully be awesome siblings. But seeing them grow is so joyous, and seeing the progress because he's high energy, but like today at work, I had had to go in for a ceremony and he sat there for an hour and a half quiet and I was like progress. We are doing better and we're getting there, so just just seeing them grow up is such a joy and I hope he grows up to be, you know, smart and athletic, and all the things that every parent wants for their kids to do with S. basic, S full and be themselves

Lia:
If you had to leave or give a message to adoptive parents or perspective, adoptive or frost foster parents. what would that message be

tosha:
Okay. That was loaded, you said for adopts as parents, or for future perspective adoptors.

Lia:
For perspective, adoptive parents or current,

tosha:
I would really want them to consider creating a very safe space for conversation to let them know that the adopted your child is speaking to you about their feelings, and to be open to that, and to try to hopefully be able to leave your feelings at the door when they are expressing their experience of being an adopted,

Dr. Noelle:
Similar to what Tosha is saying, I feel like it is so incredibly important that adoptive parents realize and remember that their child has lost something irreplacable right, and that there is grief. Even in the youngest of children, there is loss and they need to create space for that and not make it about them, but make it about that child.

Lia:
And one last question for you guys. What kind of legacy do you want to leave behind as a parent once you've left this earth?

Dr. Noelle:
I think my legacy is in the healing that I've done. I go out of my way to own the ways that I have wronged my children. I'm very public about the mistakes that I made as a mother and I think my legacy is them. They are amazing parents, and they're so good to their children, And that is that is the legacy.

tosha:
I feel like I'm so early still in my parent journey, but right now how I feel leaving the legacy as a parent would be creating. what kind of what I said before a space being open to listen to your kids, knowing when to parent when to be that that friend you know, being able to switch both sides, being able to, even at a young age If they're not interested in activity or sport. That's fine. I want to have a legacy of just being open, being supportive And being open to mental health.

Lia:
Thank you, Also much. it was really really interesting conversation. If I ever decide to change my mind and not be the cool ante anymore. I've gained some jewels for you guys. Um, Yeah, so I want to thank our editor, Sammy, who edits each and every one of our episodes. I want to think sure for these lovely Mike's that we have, and I also want to think Buzsprout for hosting us on their platform, and We will see you next week, or we'll see you for our next episode on Adopts and mental Health.